WEBVTT 00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:03.697 Two generals are fighting for power, and a country that once had hope for democracy 00:00:03.697 --> 00:00:07.497 is now suffering one of the world's worst humanitarian disasters. 00:00:08.077 --> 00:00:11.777 According to the United Nations, 14 million people have been displaced, 00:00:12.037 --> 00:00:13.437 within a single country. 00:00:13.857 --> 00:00:18.177 A third of the population is starving. 26 million people don't have enough to eat. 00:00:18.657 --> 00:00:24.137 And yet, almost no one is talking about this catastrophe. Who stands to gain from the war in Sudan? 00:00:24.917 --> 00:00:28.997 Politically, economically, maybe even internationally? And who is helping those 00:00:28.997 --> 00:00:29.857 who've lost everything? 00:00:30.017 --> 00:00:36.717 In Crisis Mode, the podcast from the world's crisis and war zones with journalist Jan Jessen. 00:00:40.317 --> 00:00:45.237 In Crisis Mode, the podcast from conflict zones with Jan Jessen. 00:00:49.177 --> 00:00:54.777 Hi, I'm Jan Jessen, head of politics at NRZ and war and crisis reporter for the Funk Media Group. 00:00:55.097 --> 00:00:58.357 Hundreds of thousands of people in Sudan are facing starvation. 00:00:59.177 --> 00:01:02.857 Cities in Darfur are under siege, clinics and markets are being bombed, 00:01:03.017 --> 00:01:08.097 and at the same time, the crisis has almost completely vanished from international attention. 00:01:08.557 --> 00:01:13.037 The war in Sudan, it's a forgotten war. I haven't been there myself. 00:01:13.317 --> 00:01:14.517 Not yet, unfortunately. 00:01:15.037 --> 00:01:20.137 For journalists, entering the country is extremely difficult, almost impossible. 00:01:20.457 --> 00:01:24.357 But I've spoken with people who are on the ground or have been there until recently. 00:01:24.357 --> 00:01:30.397 Roman Deckert is a journalist and Sudan expert who helps us understand the political situation. 00:01:31.077 --> 00:01:35.697 Jerome Stoll from Welt Hungerhilfe coordinates aid projects from Port Sudan. 00:01:36.357 --> 00:01:41.037 And Maria Fix from Doctors Without Borders spent a total of a year there. 00:01:41.297 --> 00:01:45.917 She talks about the suffering of civilians and the courage of those who keep helping. 00:01:46.137 --> 00:01:50.517 To understand what's happening in Sudan right now, we first need to know who's fighting whom. 00:01:50.817 --> 00:01:54.177 I spoke with Roman Deckert, journalist and Sudan expert. 00:01:54.717 --> 00:01:59.937 So, to begin, let's take a look at the map. Who controls which parts of the country? 00:02:00.831 --> 00:02:04.271 Ja, gerade muss man also feststellen, dass es ganz faktisch gespalten ist. 00:02:05.791 --> 00:02:08.891 Right now, it must be acknowledged that the country is essentially divided. 00:02:09.331 --> 00:02:12.171 The eastern half is controlled by the Sudanese Armed Forces, 00:02:12.391 --> 00:02:16.571 SAF, under General Abdel Fattah Burhan, while the western half, 00:02:16.631 --> 00:02:20.371 basically everything west of the capital Khartoum, especially the Darfur region, 00:02:20.511 --> 00:02:23.271 is held by the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces, RSF. 00:02:23.791 --> 00:02:26.171 On the battlefield, the army currently has a slight upper hand. 00:02:26.471 --> 00:02:29.791 There are fights over the city of El Abed in the west, aber insbesondere über 00:02:29.791 --> 00:02:31.371 El Fashir, die größte Stadt in Darfur. 00:02:31.711 --> 00:02:35.271 Described by observers als truly hell on earth, hundreds of thousands are threatened 00:02:35.271 --> 00:02:38.451 by starvation, and an absolutely horrific battle is raging over the city. 00:02:39.051 --> 00:02:41.651 The RSF militias have been growing stronger since the 2000s. 00:02:41.831 --> 00:02:44.251 They originally stemmed from the fleeing Janjaweed militias. 00:02:44.611 --> 00:02:48.211 The RSF leader, known as Metier, earned massive petrodollars from mercenary 00:02:48.211 --> 00:02:52.091 activities and also built extensive business networks, especially in the United Arab Emirates. 00:02:52.091 --> 00:02:55.711 Es tobt also eine wirklich fürchterliche Schlacht um diese Stadt. 00:02:55.711 --> 00:03:01.911 Der Armee der Roman Deckert ist die General von Abdel Fattah Burhan. 00:03:02.031 --> 00:03:06.691 Er ist eigentlich der Head der State in Sudan, nicht aus dem Titel, 00:03:06.691 --> 00:03:11.131 aber in Praxis, weil er die Armee Chief und der größte Mann in der Lande ist. 00:03:11.491 --> 00:03:16.091 Auf der anderen Seite sind die Rapid Support Forces, also von Deckert. 00:03:16.391 --> 00:03:22.131 Sie sind ledet von Mohammed Hamdan Dagalo, also ein General. Er war Burhan's deputy. 00:03:22.531 --> 00:03:28.191 Die RASF-Milizen waren eigentlich Militien, die auf der Regierungsscheidung in Darfur foughten. 00:03:28.671 --> 00:03:31.911 Man kann sich daran erinnern, ein paar Jahre vorhin gab es bereits eine brutalen 00:03:31.911 --> 00:03:33.091 Krieg in den westlichen Provinzen. 00:03:34.031 --> 00:03:37.091 Mit vielen Töten, massen Verwaltungen und verrückten Atrozitäten. 00:03:37.851 --> 00:03:44.191 Die RASF-Milizen, die später die RASF-Milizen wurden, waren der Hauptinstigate dieser Konflikt. 00:03:44.351 --> 00:03:48.451 Die Frage ist natürlich, woher die RASF-Milizen sind und was sie betrifft? 00:03:52.811 --> 00:03:57.411 In other words, this is a war business. The RSF is a vast business empire. 00:03:57.791 --> 00:04:01.031 The government army under Burhan is in fact at odds with the Emirates. 00:04:01.351 --> 00:04:05.171 But the goldmine in eastern Sudan still flows almost entirely to Dubai. 00:04:05.611 --> 00:04:08.771 It's very complex. The lines are blurred. But one thing is clear. 00:04:08.931 --> 00:04:10.431 This is a war economy, a big business. 00:04:10.771 --> 00:04:14.051 And the ones paying the price are the ordinary people, the civilian population. 00:04:15.531 --> 00:04:19.831 Diese Entanglements machen nicht nur den Konflikt komplex, sie machen es auch profitabel. 00:04:20.571 --> 00:04:23.531 Goldfuels, mercenarische Netzwerke und weibliche Backer sind abseits. 00:04:23.951 --> 00:04:28.171 Die Krieg in Sudan hat lange seitdem ein Business geworden. Aber wir werden das später reden. 00:04:29.053 --> 00:04:34.353 So what's the situation on the ground? For two years now, this civil war has been raging in Sudan. 00:04:34.973 --> 00:04:37.893 As Deckert explained, the country is practically split in two. 00:04:38.213 --> 00:04:41.993 In the east, the state army, SAF, holds control. 00:04:42.513 --> 00:04:47.133 In the west, it's the rapid support forces. And of course, as in so many wars, 00:04:47.293 --> 00:04:51.633 the generals are the ones benefiting, while the people are the ones starving. 00:04:51.913 --> 00:04:56.353 I spoke with Jeroen Stoll from Welthungerhilfe. He coordinates the organization's 00:04:56.353 --> 00:05:00.513 programs from Port Sudan, covering everything from the relatively stable East 00:05:00.513 --> 00:05:02.273 to the war-torn regions in the West. 00:05:02.473 --> 00:05:07.993 There is, of course, less opportunity for the communities to grow their crops, 00:05:08.133 --> 00:05:11.833 but also less opportunity to access humanitarian aid. 00:05:12.093 --> 00:05:18.553 So these are the areas where the humanitarian situation is most dire. 00:05:18.793 --> 00:05:24.833 Of course, we talk about the Darfur areas, the Kordofan areas, 00:05:24.833 --> 00:05:29.193 and other areas where access is limited. 00:05:29.633 --> 00:05:34.033 Access is dangerous, supply chains are collapsing and people are starving and 00:05:34.033 --> 00:05:37.913 dangerous access also means danger for those trying to help. 00:05:38.153 --> 00:05:42.553 The local aid workers from Welthungerhilfe and others from the few organisations 00:05:42.553 --> 00:05:44.013 still operating in the country. 00:05:44.333 --> 00:05:48.653 The World Food Programme warns that a third of the population depends on aid 00:05:48.653 --> 00:05:53.733 and the available resources are nowhere near enough. Ich frage Jeroen ob die 00:05:53.733 --> 00:05:56.473 Sudan immer noch viel attention bekommt als andere Krise. 00:05:57.013 --> 00:06:01.913 Und, zu sagen es casually, wo Sudan auf eine Art Global Disaster Index würde. 00:06:02.193 --> 00:06:05.693 Bitte, ich darf nicht nicht sagen, dass diese Frage direkt zu. 00:06:05.693 --> 00:06:12.393 Aber ich denke, dass es mit Gaza ist, aber es ist nicht ein Wettbewerb, 00:06:12.673 --> 00:06:14.293 wenn Sie wissen, was ich meine. 00:06:14.433 --> 00:06:18.313 Aber das ist nicht zu widmen, Ihre Frage. Es ist massive. 00:06:18.613 --> 00:06:22.353 Die Herausforderungen ahead sind massive. Die Herausforderungen für die localen 00:06:22.353 --> 00:06:25.093 Gemeinden, die localen Populationen sind massive. 00:06:25.433 --> 00:06:31.433 Ja, und Ukraine, vielleicht auch da, Gaza, Sudan, absolut. 00:06:34.230 --> 00:06:39.830 Ja, es scheint so sehr proträgt. Das ist der Grundproblem mit Sudan, 00:06:40.050 --> 00:06:42.190 oder Afrika in general, muss man sagen. 00:06:42.850 --> 00:06:46.930 Afrika ist ein Kontinent vergessen von der Welt, oder zumindest von der Westen. 00:06:47.670 --> 00:06:51.850 Some of Sie vielleicht auch remember die Krieg in Äthiopien's Tigre region. 00:06:52.010 --> 00:06:55.090 Es hat sich schon seit ein Zeitpunkt verletzt, und es gab einen Moment, 00:06:55.150 --> 00:06:58.970 da waren über 500,000 Todes, und niemand war. 00:06:59.690 --> 00:07:03.690 Other conflict zones around the world are similar. Take Yemen, 00:07:03.830 --> 00:07:08.010 for example, where a war is raging that relatively few people pay attention to. 00:07:08.430 --> 00:07:12.150 Our focus, at least in the West, is clearly on Gaza and Ukraine. 00:07:12.410 --> 00:07:17.730 And of course, that makes things extremely difficult for aid organizations operating 00:07:17.730 --> 00:07:20.030 in countries with major crises, like Sudan. 00:07:20.550 --> 00:07:24.870 These organizations rely on funding, and if certain conflicts aren't in the 00:07:24.870 --> 00:07:29.230 public or media spotlight, the donations simply don't flow. Das ist ein großes 00:07:29.230 --> 00:07:33.790 Problem, nicht nur für die Organisationen, aber über alles für die Menschen, 00:07:33.850 --> 00:07:34.250 die in den Menschen verletzten. 00:07:35.050 --> 00:07:39.650 In besieged cities, wie Al-Fashir in Darfur region, oder in Camps, 00:07:39.710 --> 00:07:42.950 also in Darfur, Menschen sind aus der ganzen Welt cut. 00:07:43.270 --> 00:07:48.090 Al-Fashir ist eine Stadt von rund 300,000 Menschen, und es hat sich seit Monaten unter dem Siege. 00:07:48.810 --> 00:07:51.610 Die reports aus Al-Fashir kommen sind wirklich verrückt. 00:07:52.410 --> 00:07:55.550 Menschen sind zu leben, auf dem Graschen, oder wer weiß was. 00:07:59.590 --> 00:08:12.250 Die Sendung wurde vom NDR live untertitelt. 00:08:12.430 --> 00:08:19.450 Ich würde sagen, es ist gefährlich. People are exposed to active violence on 00:08:19.450 --> 00:08:21.390 a day-to-day basis, potentially. 00:08:22.470 --> 00:08:27.370 Access, mobility, it has significantly reduced. 00:08:29.070 --> 00:08:36.010 As trying to be an accommodating and responsible employer, we give people the 00:08:36.010 --> 00:08:38.790 choice, the opportunity to leave. 00:08:40.030 --> 00:08:43.430 And many say, no, we choose to stay because this is our home. 00:08:43.430 --> 00:08:46.670 Das ist, dass unsere Familien von und unsere Familien sind. 00:08:46.890 --> 00:08:51.690 Das ist eine ganz menschliche Geschichte, muss ich sagen. 00:08:52.190 --> 00:08:57.450 Wie oft ist in Konflikten, ist nicht nur die Kriegsbewegung der Militär Infrastruktur, 00:08:57.590 --> 00:09:00.010 sondern auch der Medikamenten. 00:09:00.994 --> 00:09:05.834 Und das ist etwas Maria Fick experienced firsthand. Sie ist eine Nurse und hat 00:09:05.834 --> 00:09:11.154 eine ganze Zeit in Sudan mit Doctors Without Borders, working unter extremem harsh conditions. 00:09:11.514 --> 00:09:14.214 Hallo und vielen Dank für die Einladung. 00:09:14.734 --> 00:09:18.834 Hallo und vielen Dank für die Einladung. Ich bin immer wieder auf die Chance 00:09:18.834 --> 00:09:22.754 zu sprechen, weil ich ehrlich bin, ich fühle mich, die Lauf von Sudan zu sprechen. 00:09:22.754 --> 00:09:26.774 Die Lauf der Lande ist viel zu hoch, besonders als die Worte der Krieg ist, 00:09:27.434 --> 00:09:28.574 dass die Worte mehr als zwei Jahre jetzt sind. 00:09:29.134 --> 00:09:34.234 I spent almost an entire year of that time in Sudan, and from what I've seen, nothing is improving. 00:09:34.874 --> 00:09:38.014 In fact, it feels like people are talking about it less and less, 00:09:38.154 --> 00:09:41.414 even though the humanitarian situation keeps getting worse. 00:09:42.034 --> 00:09:46.194 Medical facilities are being destroyed, there are countless civilian casualties, 00:09:46.874 --> 00:09:51.074 markets and hospitals are bombed, and even refugee camps are being wiped out. 00:09:51.814 --> 00:09:55.334 Sadly, there's been no sign of improvement at all. On the contrary, 00:09:55.714 --> 00:09:58.354 over the past two years, things have only gotten worse. 00:09:58.574 --> 00:10:01.074 While the world's attention has steadily faded away. 00:10:05.654 --> 00:10:09.374 Maria was in cities like Nyala, which used to be the country's second-largest 00:10:09.374 --> 00:10:11.634 city. Today, it's largely destroyed. 00:10:16.714 --> 00:10:20.634 My first deployment in Sudan was actually in Darfur. At that time, 00:10:20.754 --> 00:10:25.254 we had only been back in the country for a few months, even though we had worked there before the war. 00:10:25.374 --> 00:10:27.994 I was in Nyala itself, which was completely destroyed. 00:10:37.874 --> 00:10:41.474 In den letzten Jahren, war, was da. Things had somewhat stabilised, 00:10:41.534 --> 00:10:44.874 but attacks were still happening, including airstrikes on the city, 00:10:45.034 --> 00:10:47.074 which caused many injuries and deaths. 00:10:47.954 --> 00:10:49.934 And those airstrikes are still going on, even today. 00:10:56.574 --> 00:11:00.034 In some regions, there is practically no healthcare system left. 00:11:00.574 --> 00:11:04.074 And of course it's generally difficult, even if the health system was still 00:11:04.074 --> 00:11:07.854 somewhat functioning. But there are tens of millions of internally displaced 00:11:07.854 --> 00:11:10.734 people in this country, fleeing from one place to another. 00:11:11.274 --> 00:11:15.834 And naturally, providing for such a massive number of refugees is extremely challenging. 00:11:16.114 --> 00:11:20.594 You might remember the problems Germany faced back in 2014 to 2015, 00:11:20.614 --> 00:11:22.894 when around a million people arrived. 00:11:23.194 --> 00:11:27.134 Whether it was the healthcare system, the education system or whatever, 00:11:27.394 --> 00:11:30.754 there were huge debates and massive logistical challenges. 00:11:31.034 --> 00:11:36.374 How do we manage this? Imagine a country like Sudan, where 14 million people 00:11:36.374 --> 00:11:41.114 are on the run amid an active war, with bombings, shootings and destroyed health facilities. 00:11:41.819 --> 00:11:45.379 Das ist eine Katastrophe auf ein ganz anderes Level. Und das ist warum Cholera 00:11:45.379 --> 00:11:49.159 ist spreading, Mothers sind in Kindesbirth und Kinder sind starb. 00:11:49.579 --> 00:11:59.219 Right where I was working in Nyala, 00:11:59.379 --> 00:12:02.999 we had an enormes number of pregnant women who died either during pregnancy 00:12:02.999 --> 00:12:04.899 or shortly after giving birth. 00:12:04.959 --> 00:12:08.639 This was mainly because they had to travel long distances to reach a hospital 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:11.719 and because so few health facilities were still functioning. 00:12:11.819 --> 00:12:16.039 You see similar issues with children who often can't get into facilities to 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:19.959 be treated for things like malnutrition or don't have enough access to care 00:12:19.959 --> 00:12:24.459 for diarrheal diseases, which they're particularly vulnerable to, or malaria. 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:29.599 And for me personally, sexual violence is always a huge issue. It's rampant. 00:12:30.239 --> 00:12:33.759 In Sudan, sexual violence is even used as a weapon of war. 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:39.899 I think just in June of this year, in Tawila, there were 113 consultations for 00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:41.619 sexual violence in a single week. 00:12:41.819 --> 00:12:45.199 Und es ist nicht nur Frauen, die sind, es Kinder, die. 00:12:45.779 --> 00:12:48.299 Die jüngste Case, die wir aufgenommen haben, war eine 5-Jährige. 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:50.459 Das hat mich sehr hart, persönlich. 00:12:50.939 --> 00:12:54.839 Even wenn ich in Niala war, in der kurzen Zeit, wir sah so viele Cases. 00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:59.179 Und ich denke, wir waren nur die tip der Eisberg. Denn viele Leute haben weder 00:12:59.179 --> 00:13:03.439 keinen Zugang, nicht wissen, wo sie für Hilfe sind, oder es einfach keine Unterstützung 00:13:03.439 --> 00:13:05.799 gibt, wie Psychologisch-Aberatung. 00:13:11.819 --> 00:13:16.539 Zugang haben, noch wissen, wo sie Versorgung bekommen, noch dazu fehlt es dann 00:13:16.539 --> 00:13:18.579 an so Sachen wie psychologische Unterstützung. 00:13:18.579 --> 00:13:22.699 Still, and this is truly remarkable and absolutely worthy of appreciation. 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:28.059 Aid workers remain on the ground, not just the local teams, but in some cases 00:13:28.059 --> 00:13:32.239 international staff as well, staying in the country and doing their best to 00:13:32.239 --> 00:13:36.179 provide help, making assistance actually possible, and that is truly extraordinary. 00:13:36.479 --> 00:13:41.699 Also im Großen und Ganzen würde ich sagen, Gott sei Dank ist uns als Ärzte in 00:13:41.699 --> 00:13:44.739 der Grenze bisher relativ wenig, aber einfach ist es nicht. 00:13:45.384 --> 00:13:51.204 Also, wir müssen enorm viele Maßnahmen auch einhergehen, dass wir sicher gehen. 00:13:51.364 --> 00:13:57.004 Overall, I'd say, thankfully, so far, very little has happened to us as doctors without Borders staff. 00:13:57.504 --> 00:14:02.064 But it's definitely not easy. We have to follow a huge number of measures to 00:14:02.064 --> 00:14:03.424 make sure everything stays safe. 00:14:03.864 --> 00:14:07.724 There are so many checkpoints we have to go through. It's not just attacks on 00:14:07.724 --> 00:14:08.804 health facilities, either. 00:14:09.244 --> 00:14:12.964 Aid workers themselves are also affected, injured, or even killed. 00:14:13.724 --> 00:14:17.144 We've also provided support at the hospital in Selinji in central Darfur. 00:14:17.884 --> 00:14:21.764 In fact, just this year in August, several people were injured and even killed 00:14:21.764 --> 00:14:23.144 in the emergency department there. 00:14:23.644 --> 00:14:27.744 It's not easy, but we operate very much according to the principle of neutrality. 00:14:28.464 --> 00:14:32.764 That means we talk to all parties in the conflict. But it also means we communicate 00:14:32.764 --> 00:14:36.624 where we are and continually insist that international law is respected, 00:14:36.684 --> 00:14:38.044 even in these situations. 00:14:42.964 --> 00:14:48.404 Dass wir kommunizieren, wo wir sind und auch natürlich sehr stark immer wieder 00:14:48.404 --> 00:14:54.804 darauf beharren, dass das Völkerrecht auch in solchen Situationen wahrgenommen wird. 00:14:54.804 --> 00:14:59.244 And now we need to return to the question of funding, the financing of aid work 00:14:59.244 --> 00:15:04.024 on the ground, for medical support, for food assistance, for all the help being provided. 00:15:04.304 --> 00:15:07.764 And the question, especially in Sudan, is this. 00:15:07.984 --> 00:15:12.944 As we've already discussed, attention is low, so is enough money actually reaching 00:15:12.964 --> 00:15:15.544 the aid organizations to provide the support that's needed? 00:15:16.064 --> 00:15:19.104 Clearly, the answer is no, and Maria has confirmed this as well. 00:15:19.564 --> 00:15:22.644 Also, ich glaube, die Antwort ist ganz klar, dass auf jeden Fall noch Luft nach oben. 00:15:22.884 --> 00:15:27.584 Das Problem ist einfach, dass allgemein dadurch dass wenig Aufmerksamkeit aus 00:15:27.584 --> 00:15:31.344 politischer Sicht quasi von vielen Ländern weltweit Ich denke, 00:15:31.404 --> 00:15:32.344 die Antwort ist ganz klar. 00:15:32.864 --> 00:15:35.064 There's definitely still room for improvement. 00:15:35.844 --> 00:15:40.244 The problem is that in general, very little political attention from many countries 00:15:40.244 --> 00:15:45.624 around the world is focused on Sudan, which makes the allocation of aid funds extremely difficult. 00:15:45.944 --> 00:15:50.324 As Médecins Sans Frontières, we're financially independent, meaning we're not 00:15:50.324 --> 00:15:52.124 reliant on receiving government funding. 00:15:52.664 --> 00:15:56.224 That's actually helped us a bit this year, because earlier in the year, 00:15:56.344 --> 00:16:00.424 a lot of funds from the US were pulled, and we saw that some other organizations 00:16:00.424 --> 00:16:01.804 really struggled as a result. 00:16:02.824 --> 00:16:06.244 Even so, we can't nearly cover everything that's needed there. 00:16:06.764 --> 00:16:10.544 I would hope that not only political attention, bureaucracy and all, 00:16:10.704 --> 00:16:14.244 improves, aber auch dass die Distribution von AID-Funds besser wird, 00:16:14.504 --> 00:16:16.564 sodass Sudan mehr von es benötigt. 00:16:16.564 --> 00:16:21.184 Nicht nur die politische Aufmerksamkeit, also was auch Bürokratie da angeht, 00:16:21.704 --> 00:16:26.144 aber auch, dass quasi die Verteilung von Hilfsgeldern vielleicht auch wieder 00:16:26.144 --> 00:16:30.144 besser werden könnte und dass der Sudan auch davon mehr abbekommt. 00:16:30.804 --> 00:16:34.084 Während die Menschen von Sudan kämpfen für jede Kilo von Blumen, 00:16:34.244 --> 00:16:37.804 der Topf des Staates kämpft über Macht, Gold und ein System, 00:16:37.904 --> 00:16:39.264 das die Krieg profitieren. 00:16:40.163 --> 00:16:43.783 Sudan sits strategically between the Sahel region and the Red Sea. 00:16:44.103 --> 00:16:48.343 It's a country with gold, oil and vast agricultural land. 00:16:49.003 --> 00:16:53.023 However, much of the farmland is no longer as usable as it once was, 00:16:53.343 --> 00:16:56.583 back when Sudan was a major exporter of agricultural products. 00:16:57.063 --> 00:16:59.743 Much of the land has been destroyed by climate change. 00:17:00.223 --> 00:17:04.823 This is similar to Afghanistan, another country I often travel to and report on. 00:17:05.003 --> 00:17:08.763 We can even include one or two reports from Afghanistan in the show notes. 00:17:08.763 --> 00:17:13.723 Sudan, like Afghanistan, is heavily affected by climate change. 00:17:14.003 --> 00:17:18.823 Both are countries that contributed little to the problem, but suffer the most from its consequences. 00:17:19.583 --> 00:17:23.383 This, as I said, makes the situation in Sudan even worse. 00:17:23.683 --> 00:17:28.323 On top of the ongoing conflicts, which the country has endured for many years, 00:17:28.783 --> 00:17:33.283 now compounded by two years of a massive civil war and the additional impacts 00:17:33.283 --> 00:17:36.843 of climate change, Aber weil Sudan so resource-rich ist, 00:17:37.183 --> 00:17:42.803 ist es auch hochkontestiert und hat Interesse von neighboringen Staten und internationalen 00:17:42.803 --> 00:17:44.823 Aktoren versucht, um profit zu erzeugen. 00:17:45.763 --> 00:17:51.543 Für Jahre hat der Macht in Sudan gehalten wurde von Weapons, nicht von Erektions. 00:17:52.434 --> 00:17:57.734 After the fall of long-time dictator Omar al-Bashir, who ruled for 30 years, 00:17:58.074 --> 00:18:01.874 there was a brief hope for democracy and peace in 2019. 00:18:02.834 --> 00:18:08.174 Civil society rose up, attempting to guide Sudan toward a peaceful, democratic future. 00:18:08.734 --> 00:18:13.434 It was remarkable, but that hope was buried by the two generals now fighting each other. 00:18:14.094 --> 00:18:17.454 Roman Deckert knows the power circles, the militias and the history, 00:18:17.574 --> 00:18:24.434 and he says, this war is no accident. In other words, this is a war business. 00:18:24.754 --> 00:18:27.334 The RSF is a vast business empire. 00:18:27.934 --> 00:18:31.034 The government army under Burhan is in fact at odds with the Emirates. 00:18:31.234 --> 00:18:35.114 But the goldmine in eastern Sudan still flows almost entirely to Dubai. 00:18:35.574 --> 00:18:38.754 It's very complex. The lines are blurred. But one thing is clear. 00:18:38.914 --> 00:18:40.454 This is a war economy, a big business. 00:18:40.714 --> 00:18:44.054 And the ones paying the price are the ordinary people, the civilian population. 00:18:44.054 --> 00:18:48.874 Und die Zäche zahlen im Prinzip die einfachen Leute, die Zivilbevölkerung. 00:18:48.874 --> 00:18:51.914 Und dann müssen wir auch unsere Sicht auf den internationalen Ebeneien abnehmen. 00:18:52.094 --> 00:18:57.854 Die Krieg in Sudan, wie so viele Konflikte weltweit, ist beeinflusst von internationalen activen. 00:18:58.034 --> 00:19:02.634 Zum Beispiel, die Sudanese Armed Forces, SAF, sind unterstützt von Egypt und 00:19:02.634 --> 00:19:04.294 Saudi-Arabien, während die 00:19:04.294 --> 00:19:09.554 Rapid Support Forces, RSF, bekommen backing von den United Arab Emirates. 00:19:09.894 --> 00:19:14.354 Geld fließt in aus und Gold fließt in aus. Es gibt auch viele Deutschland, 00:19:14.614 --> 00:19:17.374 wie Deutschland, die ihre historischen Ties haben. 00:19:17.794 --> 00:19:22.934 Für viele Jahre, wenn die GDR existiert, Sudan war es als ein stage für die 00:19:22.934 --> 00:19:24.834 Rivalry zwischen East und West. 00:19:25.394 --> 00:19:29.474 At der Zeit, Sudan received massive Weapons Support von der Federalen Republik Deutschland. 00:19:30.154 --> 00:19:35.094 Other Interesse Groups play a role, too. For instance, Ukraine, die die SAF supports. 00:19:35.454 --> 00:19:39.794 On der anderen Seite, Russia, durch die Wagner Mercenaries, hat at least partially 00:19:39.794 --> 00:19:43.994 supported die RSF, Although that seems to have decreased somewhat. 00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:48.900 As Roman Deckert points out, this is not purely a Sudanese struggle for power. 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:52.280 It's a regional and international power play. 00:19:52.900 --> 00:19:57.860 And this coalition supports the government army under General Burhan. 00:19:57.860 --> 00:20:01.120 Oder auf der anderen Seite ist ganz klar, ich kenne niemand Ernsthaftes, 00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:06.340 der das wirklich in Abrede stellt, sind die Vereinigten Arabischen Emiraten. 00:20:06.340 --> 00:20:08.960 Und diese Koalition unterstützt die Regierungsschaft unter General Burhan. 00:20:09.220 --> 00:20:12.940 On the other side, it's clear, I don't know anyone serious who would dispute 00:20:12.940 --> 00:20:16.540 this. The United Arab Emirates actively back the RSF militias, 00:20:16.860 --> 00:20:19.900 providing supplies, financial support and logistical aid. 00:20:20.280 --> 00:20:23.220 I also never get tired of pointing out that the West is involved as well. 00:20:23.600 --> 00:20:26.740 I think it's crucial to highlight this, so people don't get the impression that, 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.080 oh, somewhere deep in Africa, people are just fighting each other. 00:20:30.380 --> 00:20:34.020 No, this is also a modern war, driven hard and fast by geopolitical interests. 00:20:34.460 --> 00:20:37.740 And Western countries are involved too, primarily by simply not prioritizing Sudan. 00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:44.500 Wo es ganz knallhart um realpolitische Interessen geht, geopolitische Interessen 00:20:44.500 --> 00:20:48.540 und die westlichen Länder hängen da auch mit drin, vor allen Dingen indem sie 00:20:48.540 --> 00:20:52.240 eigentlich den Sudan nicht wirklich priorisieren. 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.860 Und über alles, Sudan ist einfach nicht priorisiert. 00:20:56.360 --> 00:20:59.340 Das ist etwas, was wir in der Zeit haben, wenn wir über Sudan sprechen. 00:20:59.580 --> 00:21:02.660 Wie gesagt, das ist nicht ein regionaler oder localer Konflikt. 00:21:02.840 --> 00:21:06.100 Es ist ein Konflikt, die von der anderen Seite geführt. Aber natürlich, 00:21:06.500 --> 00:21:09.240 das Hauptsache der Krieg ist, remains Sudanese. 00:21:09.600 --> 00:21:13.380 There are always people who claim it's a conflict between Arabs on one side, 00:21:13.560 --> 00:21:18.420 the RSF militias being seen as Arab tribal fighters, and Africans on the other, 00:21:18.840 --> 00:21:20.540 supposedly oppressed by these Arabs. 00:21:21.020 --> 00:21:23.060 That would make it seem like an ethnic war. 00:21:23.660 --> 00:21:26.540 But Roman Deckert is very clear, that's definitely not the case. 00:21:27.040 --> 00:21:31.140 This is a struggle for power, not an ethnic war. Ich bin da immer ein ganz großer 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:34.560 Kritiker von den Begriffen, denn ethischer Konflikt das suggeriert ja. 00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:36.820 Als wir jetzt Ethnizität. 00:21:39.389 --> 00:21:44.289 Ich habe immer ein starkes Kritik des ETHNIC-CONFLICT, weil es das ETHNICIT 00:21:44.289 --> 00:21:45.949 ist die Grundlage des Konflikts. 00:21:46.049 --> 00:21:48.529 Und wenn man sich näher schaut, das ist natürlich nonsensisch. 00:21:48.709 --> 00:21:50.989 Es ist viel mehr komplex, und die lines sind blöd. 00:21:51.409 --> 00:21:55.929 Man muss sich fragen, ETHNICIT, ETHNIC-Gruppen, was das wirklich bedeutet? 00:21:56.249 --> 00:21:58.669 Das sind soziale Gruppen, ja, oft mit verschiedenen Sprachen. 00:21:59.149 --> 00:22:02.109 Aber sehr schnell wird man sich in die TRIBAL- oder NATIONALIST-Gruppen. 00:22:02.529 --> 00:22:05.249 Natürlich, ETHNIC-Gruppen existen als soziale Units, aber oft sind sie auch 00:22:05.249 --> 00:22:08.309 soziale Konstrukte. Für mich, der Unterschied ist, dass dieses Framing slides 00:22:08.309 --> 00:22:09.449 into eine etwas raciste Logik. 00:22:09.849 --> 00:22:11.629 Suddenly, du bist in einer Karl-May-Style-Narrative. 00:22:12.069 --> 00:22:14.829 Tribes, Enemies von uns, und es wird alles sehr folklorisch. 00:22:15.289 --> 00:22:18.109 Und das obschures die Fakt, dass alles in einem globalen Kontext passiert. 00:22:20.789 --> 00:22:25.069 Und das verstellt den Blick darauf, dass das alles in einem globalen Kontext stattfindet. 00:22:25.469 --> 00:22:29.029 Und despite all diese dire Situation, despite die horrifische, 00:22:29.349 --> 00:22:33.249 humanitärische Krise, die gerade in der Welt devastieren, in Sudan, gibt es Hoffnung. 00:22:33.929 --> 00:22:37.209 Und diese Hoffnung kommt aus den Gras-Ruzen. from civil society. 00:22:37.529 --> 00:22:42.629 I mentioned earlier that in 2019, when long-time dictator Omar al-Bashir was 00:22:42.629 --> 00:22:46.149 overthrown, later held accountable for war crimes in The Hague, 00:22:46.469 --> 00:22:50.329 there was a civil society uprising and an attempt to democratize Sudan. 00:22:50.689 --> 00:22:55.129 The remnants of those networks, those civil society groups, still exist today. 00:22:55.389 --> 00:22:59.189 Local networks like the emergency response rooms keep the country running, 00:22:59.409 --> 00:23:03.129 they distribute food, organize medical aid, rebuild schools, 00:23:03.649 --> 00:23:07.649 essentially doing what a government should be doing, Aber die Städte oder ihre 00:23:07.649 --> 00:23:11.049 Strukturen sind in der Krieg entlangt und zeigen wenig Wunsch für die Neues 00:23:11.049 --> 00:23:12.289 der zivilischen Bevölkerung. 00:23:12.849 --> 00:23:14.689 Das ist, wo die Zivilgesellschaft in die Zukunft der Zivilgesellschaft ist. 00:23:15.089 --> 00:23:17.649 Und das ist etwas, das Hoffnung für den Zukunft der Sudan. 00:23:18.209 --> 00:23:22.769 Diese lokalen Netzwerke wurden vorhin ein alternativer Nobelpreis-Prize getestet, 00:23:23.149 --> 00:23:28.089 in der sie Arbeit in Pläne, wo internationale Organisationen nicht mehr erreichen können. 00:23:28.749 --> 00:23:32.069 Roman Deckert hat diese Gruppen schon seit einiger Zeit vertreten. 00:23:36.069 --> 00:23:38.209 Der sudanischen Zivilgesellschaft 00:23:38.643 --> 00:23:43.743 Aus diesen Nachbarschaftskomitees, Neighborhood Resistance Committees hießen 00:23:43.743 --> 00:23:47.823 die damals, sind jetzt eine sehr stolz und resilient Tradition within Sudan's 00:23:47.823 --> 00:23:51.923 civil society, rooted in what used to be called the Neighborhood Resistance Committees. 00:23:52.643 --> 00:23:56.303 These groups have now evolved into the so-called Emergency Response Rooms. 00:23:56.543 --> 00:23:59.563 And they're essentially doing what should be the core responsibility of the 00:23:59.563 --> 00:24:02.503 state, making sure people have the basics they need to survive, 00:24:02.623 --> 00:24:04.503 food, medicine and care. 00:24:04.943 --> 00:24:09.143 The state itself isn't providing that support. Instead, it's those strong men 00:24:09.143 --> 00:24:13.883 who are fueling chaos, while over 600 emergency response rooms are keeping communities alive. 00:24:14.283 --> 00:24:16.623 They were even nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize last year. 00:24:16.863 --> 00:24:20.403 And they would have more than deserved it. That's where real hope lies. 00:24:21.203 --> 00:24:24.163 Of course, we have to be careful not to place all expectations on these grassroots 00:24:24.163 --> 00:24:27.363 activists or burden them with carrying an entire country on their shoulders. 00:24:27.763 --> 00:24:31.923 But still, they represent a remarkable source of hope. Grassroots-AktivistInnen 00:24:31.923 --> 00:24:38.503 und Aktivisten, dass man ihnen das aufbürdet, aber da gibt es wirklich, wirklich Hoffnung. 00:24:38.503 --> 00:24:41.423 Wenn Roman Deckert spricht über die Grasse-Rooter-Aktivisten, 00:24:41.523 --> 00:24:42.963 er bedeutet Grasse-Rooter-Movements. 00:24:43.223 --> 00:24:49.463 As der Name suggests, movements die von der Gesellschaft selbst herauskommen, nicht von der Staat. 00:24:49.763 --> 00:24:53.803 Dies sind selbst-organisiertes Gruppen, ähnlich wie in Syrien, 00:24:53.983 --> 00:24:59.143 als die Civil War begonnen wurde, bevor es ideologisch oder religiösisch gegründet 00:24:59.143 --> 00:25:00.723 wurde oder gefühlt von der Osten. 00:25:00.843 --> 00:25:06.723 In Syria, there were local coordination groups trying to organize protests against 00:25:06.723 --> 00:25:10.023 Assad and push the country toward a democratic path. 00:25:10.203 --> 00:25:13.903 I find it remarkable that such movements exist in war-affected countries, 00:25:14.223 --> 00:25:18.483 in difficult contexts, in nations that have suffered under dictatorships, 00:25:18.603 --> 00:25:22.903 that these grassroots movements can still emerge and organize, often underground. 00:25:23.343 --> 00:25:27.423 In the end, these groups are the hope that one day there might be peace in such 00:25:27.423 --> 00:25:31.303 countries. Und die große Frage ist, ob Sudan ein Zukunftsleben wird, 00:25:31.383 --> 00:25:33.683 außer dem Veröffentlichen und External Interferenz. 00:25:34.304 --> 00:25:37.604 Roman Deckert believes it can, cautiously of course. 00:25:38.104 --> 00:25:42.744 For him it's clear, Sudan can only survive if the military and militias step 00:25:42.744 --> 00:25:46.144 back and civil society is truly allowed to take charge. 00:25:46.904 --> 00:25:53.724 Ja, ich würde mir selber eher wünschen, dass es einen Sudan gibt. 00:25:54.664 --> 00:26:00.204 Einen vereinten Sudan, in dem die Armee in die Baracken zurückkehrt. 00:26:00.284 --> 00:26:03.304 Personally, what I'd really hope for is a united Sudan, Eine, 00:26:03.304 --> 00:26:07.324 wo die Arme zurückkehren, die Militiasen sind verarmt und die Gesellschaften 00:26:07.324 --> 00:26:08.944 endlich wiederkehren und die Welt zurückkehren. 00:26:10.064 --> 00:26:13.664 Denn die Wahrheit ist, Sudan ist eigentlich ein rich Land. Es hat alles, 00:26:13.724 --> 00:26:14.424 was es um die Welt zu leben. 00:26:14.764 --> 00:26:18.184 Aber es sind die Militärer und die Foreign-Präsen in der Region die blockieren, 00:26:18.884 --> 00:26:21.284 die keinen Interesse in sehen, dass ein Demokratik Sudan erneut. 00:26:21.544 --> 00:26:25.724 Und ich denke, es ist jetzt die Westen gesagt, dass die Regional-Präsenien die 00:26:25.724 --> 00:26:29.524 Menschen die Besucher auswählen, future, stay out of it, that for me is the 00:26:29.524 --> 00:26:33.444 core critique of Western foreign policy, and not just Germany's, but more broadly, 00:26:34.024 --> 00:26:37.404 that the interests of Gulf monarchies and Egypt are still being prioritized 00:26:37.404 --> 00:26:39.404 over the hopes and rights of the Sudanese people. 00:26:39.924 --> 00:26:45.024 Das ist meine Hauptkritik an westliche Außenpolitik, nicht nur an deutscher Außenpolitik, 00:26:45.564 --> 00:26:52.204 aber auch, dass da dann die Interessen gegenüber den Golfmonarchien und Ägypten 00:26:52.204 --> 00:26:56.244 doch höher gestellt werden als gegenüber dem Sudan. 00:26:56.644 --> 00:26:59.284 Yes, and I think it's incredibly important to look at Sudan, 00:26:59.744 --> 00:27:02.804 a country where you see two realities. 00:27:03.244 --> 00:27:08.244 On top are those who profit from the war. There is apparently quite a bit of wealth in Sudan. 00:27:08.524 --> 00:27:11.544 On the bottom are those who have to survive this war. 00:27:12.024 --> 00:27:17.444 And in between, there are those trying to bring structure to their country and move it forward. 00:27:17.824 --> 00:27:21.764 Of course, there are also the aid workers, the local helpers, 00:27:22.024 --> 00:27:26.804 people risking their lives to assist their fellow citizens, und die internationalen 00:27:26.804 --> 00:27:28.344 staff, die kommen in zu geben. 00:27:29.704 --> 00:27:34.824 Leute wie Jeroen Stoll, Maria Fix und viele Sudanese, die stehen, 00:27:34.924 --> 00:27:37.184 bei allen allen odds, arbeiten zu helfen. 00:27:37.404 --> 00:27:39.724 Ich will definitiv gehen da selbst, ein Tag. 00:27:40.004 --> 00:27:42.644 Ich versuche, einen Weg zu finden, in die Sudan zu finden. 00:27:42.764 --> 00:27:47.744 Ich glaube, wir können nur diese Konflik sehen, die Leute, nicht die Generäle, 00:27:48.264 --> 00:27:52.504 nicht die Goldmine, aber die Kinder, die Mothers, die Doktor, die Nachbarn. 00:27:53.024 --> 00:27:55.804 Und vielleicht ist das wirklich alles wir können hier tun. Wir sehen, 00:27:55.924 --> 00:27:59.124 helfen und sprechen, so dass diese Krieg nicht in den Schatten bleiben. 00:27:59.544 --> 00:28:04.664 Das ist das Schlimmste, das in den Schatten kann passieren, dass sie außerhalb 00:28:04.664 --> 00:28:08.744 der Medien und öffentlichen attention passieren, weil dann aid einfach nicht erreicht wird. 00:28:09.544 --> 00:28:13.824 Und ich glaube, das ist genau das in Sudan und in anderen Ländern, 00:28:13.984 --> 00:28:16.784 dass Hilfe ist und die Menschen sind unterstützt. 00:28:17.524 --> 00:28:22.044 Das episode war Produkte von Alexander Baumeister, Also a journalist at the 00:28:22.044 --> 00:28:23.444 Funker Media Group radio station. 00:28:23.684 --> 00:28:27.344 If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe, follow and recommend us. 00:28:27.504 --> 00:28:29.144 That helps make our work more visible. 00:28:29.504 --> 00:28:31.664 Take care, see you soon and goodbye.